Falae blasts Obasanjo: He is a dictator

It was unbelievable. At the end of the twenty-minute interview with former presidential candidate, Chief Olu Falae, the reporter got over 2,500 words from him; enough materials to fill two newspaper pages! The feat only confirmed what others say of Falae - that he is a bright and articulate politician. He is, indeed, an intelligent fast talker, a reporter's delight.

Getting Chief Falae to talk took a long and tortuous journey, the type usually associated with high profile public figures. It all started at the annual lecture of the University of Ibadan Alumni Association held early December 2003 in one of the halls at the Lagos Television complex, Alausa - Ikeja, Lagos. He was chairman of the occasion while retired diplomat and former Director General of the Manufacturers Association of Nigeria, Dr Dapo Fafowora, delivered the lecture. Like a colossus that he is, a few minutes after the commencement of the event, Falae took the venue by storm. And when it was his turn to talk, he tore President Olusegun Obasanjo's policies, particularly his economic policies to shreds. At the end of the programme, the reporter got a firm appointment to interview him.

But from that time until Friday, January 16, getting him became something akin to a hide-and-seek game. He all the while was shuttling between Lagos and his hometown, Akure. Trust politicians, they don't joke with keeping in touch with their constituencies.

The reporter was therefore elated when he eventually caught up with him in Lagos. Again, he was on the move that afternoon. But, according to him, having tried this much, he would grant the interview if the reporter could come by 8 a.m. the following morning. By 7.30 a.m., the reporter was already there.

Born on September 21, 1938 in Akure, the Ondo State capital, Chief Samuel Oluyemisi Falae, attended Igbobi College, Lagos (1952-57) and Government College, Ibadan (1958-59). A 1963 Economics graduate of the University of Ibadan, he also has a Master of Science degree in the subject from Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut, USA (1972).

He joined the federal civil service in 1963 and rose to become Permanent Secretary, Cabinet Office between 1977 and 81. He was Managing Director of Nigeria Merchant Bank (1981-86). In 1986, he was appointed Secretary to the Federal Military Government of General Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida. In 1988, he was appointed Minister of Finance by the same administration.

Falae was presidential aspirant of the defunct Social Democratic Party and member, National Democratic Coalition (NADECO). Just like General Olusegun Obasanjo, who he contested against in the 1999 presidential election, he was detained by the late General Sani Abacha regime and released by the Abubakar Abdulsalami administation in 1998.

Chief Olu Falae's Lagos home is an imposing building located in high-brow Victoria Island. One feature of the modestly furnished living room are the historic pictures adorning its walls. Many of them are portraits of the Akure chief. The biggest of them all is life-sized, graciously occupying a space in the living room. There are also the family pictures taken with the three children in various stages their educational career. Then there are those with his pretty wife, Tubosun. Some of the particularly striking pictures include one with the former British Prime Minister, John Major; another with the late Owelle of Onitsha, showing Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe blessing Chief Falae; while one was taken with him in a warm handshake with the late Chief Obafemi Awolowo.

When Chief Falae eventually came in, it was to cancel the appointment. He explained that he needed the less than one hour left to take his breakfast and travel to Ijebu-Igbo where he had another 9.00 appointment. After some pleading, he decided to give the reporter just ten minutes. In the end, the interview lasted twenty minutes. The whole thing was so hurriedly done that the reporter, Tolu Olarewaju, could not go through half of the questions he had jotted down. There was neither the time nor the chance to go through them. In fact, a substantial part of the interview was done while walking to his breakfast table. All the same, it was vintage Olu Falae. Excerpts:

On AD's allegation that President Obasanjo wants to turn Nigeria into a one-party state

Well, I'm not surprised that people are beginning to say that, because Obasanjo in one of his books clearly and emphatically canvassed for a one-party state. That's what he believed in and I believe that's what he still believes in. So, I'm not surprised that people are saying that he wants us to have a one- party state.

On calls by President Obasanjo for deregistration of smaller political parties

First of all, INEC (the Independent National Electoral Commission) is by constitutional provision an independent body. It is in very bad taste for the President to be openly trying to influence INEC in performing its constitutional role. So, that calls to question the independence of INEC. What makes it the president's business to be teaching INEC its job in public? And if he does that in public, what does he do in private?

Again, it makes the point that President Obasanjo is not a democrat. If he were a democrat, he would recognise the right of everybody to express themselves politically in the form of political associations. Whether we have 10, 20 or 30, that is the choice of the people. But he doesn't have respect for the people. So, he must dictate to us how many parties we shall have.

I believe that if you allow democracy a free hand, over time thirty parties may become three, or four or five. But that is through a natural process and not through a dictatorial fiat by the President. So, it's not his business really talking about how many parties should be deregistered or not.

First of all, there is no need to register parties at all. We have always advocated that parties are private political associations formed for the purpose of gaining power. They are private institutions. So, it's not anybody's business to register them, except that you register your symbol to avoid people using conflicting symbols.

Secondly, to ensure that in a sensitive society such as ours you do not have things in your manifesto that will offend other people's sensitivities. Beyond these two reasons, there is absolutely no need for registration of political parties in the first place, not to talk of de-registering political parties already registered. It is anathema; it is absolute nonsense.

On insinuations that the victory of PDP in the Southwest has brought the geo-political zone into the mainstream of the nation's politics

That is not true. The Southwest has always been in the very centre of Nigerian politics. The late Chief Obafemi Awolowo led a national political party that won Senate seats in Gongola, in Adamawa, in other parts of Nigeria in 1979. What happened during the April 2003 general election was not victory for PDP; it was the decision of AD to abandon power.

First of all, AD governors, in their own wisdom, thinking they were now the party and there were no other people in the party, decided to do a deal with President Obasanjo. They decided that they would donate the entire bloc of Yoruba votes to him in order to persuade him not to tamper with their own second term bid. That was why they came out to say they supported Obasanjo for a second term, although they were not in the same party. When they were saying that, our own party had not even discussed the issue. They displayed flagrant indiscipline motivated by their selfish ambition to have a second term at all costs and regardless of what happened to their party.

A party that has no presidential candidate is a joke. The voters saw it and reacted accordingly. For the first time, they were not going for the highest office in Nigeria. They were saying vote for Obasanjo/PDP in presidential election but vote for X,Y,Z Governor/AD in governorship election taking place the same day. That was nonsense. The people are smarter than that. So they voted them out of the place.

Secondly, many of the governors had destroyed the party in their states. They had marginalised the leadership and the followers. They thought they were Alpha and Omega. And so people reacted. For instance, where I voted in Akure, I had to ask for the AD agent because I couldn't find any. And the presiding officer said he was at the back of the house. So they sent for him and when he came, I asked where is your badge, AD badge? It was then that he looked into his pocket and brought out a badge. That sums up the whole story.

AD members were completely demoralised and were not prepared to put up a fight. In fact, many of them wanted their governors to lose. They even voted against AD candidates; AD members voting against AD candidates. Governor Agagu of Ondo State said that much; that he knew that the number of votes he got were far more than the votes of PDP in the state. So it was a question of AD, due to the way we mismanaged our affairs, deciding to abandon power temporarily.

To prove my point, months after that election, the tide has turned again. If there is a free and fair election today I'm sure AD will sweep the whole of the west. The victory of PDP was a reaction to an internal problem in AD. They had no people. Where we had high calibre of people jostling to stand on the platform of AD, they were looking for people. So how can such a rag-tag party win an election against an established party that had been around for 50 years. It was because the party decided to abandon power for reasons I have already given.

On why he did not run for the presidential election in 2003 and be the rallying point of AD

For very obvious reasons; I'm not a joker. It would take a joker to go and take on President Obasanjo in 2003. It was clear that the man had failed. He was very unpopular. Yet he said he wanted a second term. What could that mean? It could only mean that they were going to rig the elections as they did in 1999. I told a friend of mine who asked me the same question that I'm not going to run because the result of the election would be ready three months before the voting. I'm not about to make a fool of myself. If there was going to be a free and fair election, yes. But if there was going to be a kangaroo election, worse than the one of 1999, no. So I didn't contest. I knew there was going to be no election and there was no election. That's why I didn't contest.

On his plans for 2007

I have no immediate plans. 2007 is still a long way away. I think it was Harold Wilson, the former British Prime Minister, who once said that a day is a long time in politics. If that is so, then three and a half years is eternity in politics.

On whether he supports those who say it is too early to start campaigning for 2007

I think it is not only too early, but it is idiotic. Who knows who's going to be alive in 2007? Who knows what shape Nigeria would take in 2007? Who knows?

Now, that does not mean anybody has right to restrict any other person from pursuing his political ambition. It's only a dictator who will say so. A party can advise its members not to go out too early, but it's only by moral persuasion not an order or an injunction or directive.

On allegations that President Obasanjo is behaving like a civilian dictator

In 1999, when I was running against President Obasanjo I was saying: No more soldier, no more soldier.' You can now see that a soldier is in charge. He's put ""agbada"" on top of his uniform. I think he has put off the agbada and you can now see the uniform. You can now see full-blown dictatorship.

For example, a dictator has a right to change his fiscal policy. He can say, well, I will tax petroleum, if the National Assembly approves, if the people of Nigeria accept.' He has that option and say, to cushion the effect I will stop collecting toll at the toll gates; fine and fair enough. But why destroy the tollgates, the concrete? Were they the offending things? Was he quarrelling with the task or the concrete gates? The concrete gates are Nigeria's assets and he has no authority to destroy them.

The National Assembly or whichever body was the equivalent approved the funds with which those gates were constructed. I am not aware that the same assembly has authorised him to destroy those assets. It was absolutely unnecessary to destroy the gates. Is he saying that there will be no future government in Nigeria that would pursue a different policy or that they must not formulate a different policy?

He can stop collecting tolls. Those toll plazas can become motels for travellers. You can have ambulance stations there. Road Marshals can have their offices there. You can see that veritable markets have developed around those areas. But all that did not impress our President. He just brought bulldozers and pulled down the tollgates. Why? He must answer that question. Why did he pull down the tollgates? He can stop toll collection but has no right, no power, it doesn't make sense for him to destroy the tollgates. I felt so terrible; very, very unhappy. I felt humiliated that my President was behaving that way; knocking down a national asset that was giving no offence at all and that could be put to better use for the advantage of the people.

And going by what we read in the papers, he said N10 million per state was voted for the destruction of the national assets. That sums up to N360 million which could have been used to provide 10,000 jobs, on the basis of empowering artisans at the rate of N50,000 per head. What I'm saying is that N10 million was given to federal public servants in each of the 36 states of the federation to destroy the toll plazas.

Now, there are states that have no tollgates at all. Did they get N10 million? I want to know from the President. My own state, Ondo, has only one tollgate at Ore. Did it get N10 million also? What about states that have four, five tollgates? Did they get the same amount? Is that the way to manage national resources? Im not only angry but also sad.

On allegations that President Obasanjo has a penchant for breaching the Constitution

It's because he is a soldier at heart. He has no respect for any niceties of law and regulations. He wants to go through what he wants to do without any inhibitions, bulldozing his way through. He's been doing it. He holds the entire National Assembly leadership in contempt. That's why he went and destroyed the tollgates. The gates can be there without anybody charging any toll. He's been defying everybody and asking you people to go and do your worst.

On the implication that those who have allegedly indicated interest in running for the presidential election in 2007 - General Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida, Major General Muhammadu Buhari, Brigadier Buba Marwa - were all former military officers

I was expecting you to add the name of Vice President Atiku Abubakar. He was also in the uniform profession. He was in the Customs. They are all uniform people. They carry guns in the Customs. They are just one step away from the military. They are all uniform people.

I'm not saying that they have no right to aspire to power. But they have no right to monopolise power and this is what is beginning to happen. I hope Nigerians will wake up in good time to oppose the trend. I warned them in 1999 but nobody listened to me.

On rumours making the rounds in the Southwest that Babangida should be forgiven for annulling the June 12, 1993 presidential election widely believed to have been won by the late Chief MKO Abiola.

There is no question of the Southwest forgiving Babangida or anybody. The election of Abiola was made possible by the entire nation. Yes, many people in the Southwest voted for Abiola, so did many people in Kano and in Imo and Plateau and other parts of Nigeria. I don't want people to sectionalise or localise this June 12 thing. Those of us who stood up for it, didn't do so because Abiola was a Yoruba man. We did it because it was the right thing to do.

If you look at our history, those of us in the Southwest have always stood up for justice. When Shugaba was deported from Nigeria unfairly, it was UPN (Unity Party of Nigeria) that fought for his being brought back into Nigeria. Shugaba is not a Yoruba man. When Balarabe Musa was about to be impeached, it was UPN that sent lawyers to defend him. Balarabe Musa is Hausa/Fulani. When Joseph Tarka and his people were being chased and beaten before independence, it was the Action Group. So we have a tradition in the west of championing the cause of the oppressed and the cheated.

Our support for Abiola was not because he was Yoruba. It was because he was one of those being cheated and oppressed as those before him were supported by the west. It was also the reason support for him was strongest in the west, but it was a national thing. If anyone is going to apologise to anybody, he should apologise to the entire nation.

On the Anambra saga

I was astounded to find that what is happening in Anambra could happen in Nigeria; that some people can hijack a state governor and put him in their pockets. I'm even more astounded that the President and his party, PDP, had been dilly-dallying over this matter. It is a clear case of attempted overthrow of a legitimate government. It is treasonable and they are treating it as a joke.

I got seriously grieved when some courts thought they could remove a state governor by merely giving a judgment in a courtroom without paying attention to the constitutional provision that the only way to remove a governor was through impeachment. Any student in the Law School ought to know that.

So, the entire thing stinks. In fact, my fear is that we are putting at risk our fledgling democracy. Those of us who suffered under military dictatorship are really worried that ""we are playing with fire in Anambra State.""